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E03 - Tyler Sheff

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Carl Zukroff of The Blue Hotel

Financial Peace University

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The key to financial independence is creating a passive income stream.

If you are making money while you eat out in a nice restaurant, while you sail around the islands in a yacht, while you go on vacation and have fun and do other stuff, you don’t have to care about working for somebody else and making a paycheck.

You will have achieved financial independence, and that is why I’m so excited to have with us today Tyler Sheff. He’s the host of the CashFlow Guys podcast. Helping people invest in cash flowing assets for wealth. And he’s a super guy, real generous real nice, very, very knowledgeable, and you are gonna learn a ton from him, so get your pens ready.

So Tyler, thank you so much, I’m really very impressed with your generosity that as you have succeeded, that you’re taking time for people who are just getting started and very grateful for that.

Tyler: Thank you, I appreciate you reaching out and actually give me the opportunity to begin with.

Chris: It’s all, the pleasure is all mine, believe me.

So my thing is, the podcast is all around, it’s all about me, basically. I am 55 years old, I have about $50,000 and I don’t wanna work more than another couple of hours if possible. So what advice would you give to someone like me?

Tyler: Well, I would… The first advice I’d give you is don’t focus on what you do have and I know people hear that a lot, but really, I don’t, when we got started in real estate investing, we didn’t have $50,000 to be perfectly honest with you.

It’s great to have that nest egg, and what not, but I think it needs to be that. $50,000-$100,000-$500,000 is not enough money to get you out of the rat race – for most people anyway – or to escape the right race, it’s just not… And I hate to say it that way, but it helps people to get facts. Wall Street and everybody will try to tell you otherwise, just keep pumping money in our pockets and we promise you’ll eventually retire, wrong.

So how do you do that? Do you just give up and hope to die young or something like that, wait for social security? That doesn’t make sense, right?

So for us, it came down to… We needed to learn how to help other people.

And by help people, obviously, that comes with the normal help people that may have an apartment building, an asset that’s in trouble, and reposition all that good stuff, that’s great, but what people don’t realize is there are more folks out there that have capital sitting around that are in that position, those people that have that $50,000 sitting there, and they don’t have the courage that you do to go out – or the education or the experience – to go out and learn how to grow that, that nest egg. So what I found is that when you can provide a service where you can help other people grow their retirement, not like a financial planner, we actually make them money, and don’t charge them commissions.

I apologize in advance to any financial planners that might listen to this episode, if I hurt your feelings a little bit, you get over that.

I have friends who are financial planners, so they told me that I have a license to make fun of them because they actually invest their money with me.

Chris: And that’s fair for sure.

Tyler: Really… So let me get this straight. You make a living investing other people’s money, but then you bring that commission to me, to invest it for you? How about that. Okay, well that’s interesting… But seriously, there is an unbelievable number of Americans out there that have capital sitting in an IRA, sitting in a 401K, sitting somewhere. They don’t know what to do with it.

Who do you trust? Right? Yeah, do we trust some guy that takes the helicopter to work in New York City, or girl, or do we throw it in bitcoin, something unknown or unproven? Who knows? We could probably talk for days on that topic or at least you could, I’m not that smart. But, it’s scary and when you realize that you’re not alone, first of all, that there’s a lot of folks in the same situation, you realize that somebody kinda has to step to the front of the room and be willing to take the next step.

The next step comes down to keep your money in your bank account where it belongs for the time being. You won’t be needing that. That’s what I tell people, spend some time learning how to work with other folks and some people come out of a profession where they’re really good at that.

You could be…

I can’t think of a profession off the top of my hand, but let’s say you’re a doctor. So as a doctor, you’re used to talking to patients to find out what the problem is, so that you can diagnose it and solve it. Well, doctors generally do really, really well as capital raisers because they’re good at asking questions, questions that lead to solving problems.

Attorneys are also really good at raising capital, nurses are good at raising capital, these type of professions, where they service-oriented professions.

Yeah, they naturally have to be good with people, and they have to learn how to extract information from people so they can help them. Those are your pillars, your foundation of raising capital is being good at that.

A lot of folks say that’s something you’re born with. I disagree. You read enough books. It doesn’t take $50,000 to get an education in real estate, although there are people out there to be happy to lighten your bank account of that, right?

It shouldn’t cost $50,000 to learn how to invest in real estate. This is not college. Obviously we go to college, we spend probably more than that, in a lot of cases, maybe we come out with the education we have that pedigree but what does that do for us for a job? Very little. We learn by doing. So for me, I would – instead of worrying about what I’m gonna do with my $50,000 – the answer to that question would be real simple: you keep it someplace safe. If you’ve got some money – if it’s cash and it’s not in a retirement account – if it were me, I would – people probably gonna fall over that know me and hear me say this, but it’s true –I’ve been following this lately: do the Dave Ramsey and have at least six months to 12 months of expenses set aside, in some sort of liquidity, emergency money.

If you’ve got $50,000 sitting liquid, you have any sort of bad debt, credit card, you have car loans or things like that, your money is better spent investing in that stuff that is eroding your net worth. Eliminate your debt if you’ve got $50,000 set aside and live a debt-free existence.

And the next question is: well Tyler, how am I gonna do real estate if I don’t get into debt?

Well, that’s where the Kiyosaki mind of thinking comes and we throw off the Dave Ramsay hat and we put on the Robert Kiyosaki hat and Robert teaches us the difference between good debt and bad debt. Good debt puts money in our pocket, bad debt takes it out.

So under those, that mindset, this is what my wife and I have done, what we have done is we’ve eliminated all of our debt a couple years back, we live a debt-free existence. We don’t take on any bad debt at all.

Now, when we structure opportunities, we don’t invest our own capital, because we’ve taken the time to learn how to find and negotiate great deals, how to find opportunity. We’ve learned how to work, how to where to find and how to negotiate with team members that help us because we’re certainly not the smartest people in the room, we don’t ever wanna be, that’s a dangerous place to be, so instead we spend a lot of our time talking to other folks.

I wanna know who the best real estate attorney is in the Tampa Bay Area and where I’m gonna invest in and that the answer is Shawn Yesner, that’s who that guy is.

Shawn is my lead attorney when it comes to all things Real Estate. I wanna know: who is the best title company, who is the best mortgage broker, who is the best bank-related lender, what programs are out there, who are the key people to help people that my tenants, at some point, maybe buy a home. I get all these different people together on my team and that is how you build wealth, because when you’re out there solving those problems, that’s where your leads start to come from.

As somebody that wants to invest in any capacity and be successful, other people need first of all need to know what you’re looking for. If you sit home and go, “Boy, I would just love to find a mobile home park that had a 20% cash-on cash return, and people would just give me money”. Well, unless if you’re the only one that knows that, besides you and the cat or the dog, that’s never gonna happen, right? So one of the reasons why we started our podcast, my wife and I, the CashFlow Guys podcast, was for that reason: is to put the word out there that, Hey, by the way, we buy multi-family apartment buildings, that are ugly, nasty and we make them pretty and profitable, and we do that with friends.

If you have capital sitting still, that you’re looking to do something with, there’s a chance that we may have an opportunity that would fit for you. To know more about that, let’s get together, have a conversation and see if there’s any synergy and if there’s not, that’s fine too.

But all of our business really revolves around building those relationships so that we can attract the capital, attract the deals, and that is how we build our portfolio.

Chris: Interesting.

Tyler: It’s a little abstract, probably… From what a lot of folks would expect me to say but I deal… I’ll tell you honestly, Chris, I have a lot of students and folks that we mentor and coach, that they come to us with this exact problem. And ironically, this pretty similar number. $50-$60-$70,000. We are taught as Americans that we’re supposed to take our money and do something with it, to make more money. Okay, that’s great in theory, but everybody is limited by the amount of capital they have, everybody, there’s not a person out there on the planet even, what, Richard Branson has limitations. He’s a billionaire, I believe. Jeff Bezos has limitations. He has to crowdsource his revenue to do what he has to do, from other people. The richest man in America, in the World, Zuckerberg, maybe Bill Gates, they are only, they are limited, they don’t choose to allow what they have to limit them, they instead harness other people and that’s the key.

Chris: Yeah, that makes sense. So my question to you now, is when did you come to this realization? You’ve had a lot of different jobs from policeman, fireman to boat captain, when did this all sort of congeal for you?

Tyler: Well, the story starts with: I used to flip houses. I got my real estate license back in year 2000, almost 20 years ago, and my mom, I grew up… My mom was a realtor, real estate broker, I worked with her early on, and then broke out on my own, and I thought that was a way to build wealth which it turned out, it’s not. It’s absolutely not. The next step for me was flipping houses, because I was thinking about piles of income and not streams of income.

It wasn’t until I was working, I took a job working for the federal government. I was on a ship, was making great money, well into the six figures because I found out as a government worker you don’t have to really be that good at anything. If you’re just a cut above good, you get paid really well. And I started making a lot of money, which was all fine and dandy, but the taxes were absolutely killing me on that.

I was giving away 30-40% of my revenue, my money, to back to the government in the form of tax. So the turning point for us was, we looked at… We’re never gonna be able to get out of the rat race, if we have to keep feeding this massive tax beast, if we have to keep trading time for dollars. We have to figure out a way to replace ourselves in the earning equation.

Right, because Jill and I are two people.

We would need probably 10 people to earn what we do now, passively. We would need another eight people in our family all earning what we earn to generate the kind of revenue we do by owning apartments.

And for that it became clear that we had to look at… Alright, well, how do we do this, how do we replace ourselves in the equation? And then we broke it, that’s where we wound up getting to the point to where it’s like, Well what are we good at? We’re good at putting deals together, we’re good at negotiating, we’re good at helping people and we also enjoy doing that. And what we lack is the capital to do the deals we wanna do. Well, once we discover that there’s a whole bunch of people out there, and they simply need to know that we existed and that we’re good at this, we’re really good at this. We’ve been rehabbing properties for years and years and years, we know what we’re doing, we just need the capital, people naturally gravitated to us and that’s what was the turning point. It’s like, Okay, well, there’s no other way I could think of doing this and I have people say I’m gonna flip houses until I can buy and hold.

Well no, you can’t because you’re never gonna make enough profit flipping houses to escape the rat race and buy and hold. It’s just not possible. I’ve never met anybody who’s successfully done that. Not one. I’ve talked to every podcast host on iTunes. Although they claim that they’re financially free well, they’re still flipping houses, so they’re probably not financially free, they’re still needing that pile of cash, so to speak, to feed that beast. So, you think about that, It’s like, No, you/re gonna have to leverage other people. You have to… No doubt.

Chris: I’m a real estate agent, and I like to encourage people to invest in real estate as opposed to other sorts of things they could put their money in and a lot of people say to me, “Oh but I can’t… It’s too late for me to do that now because the market at its peak, and it’s just gonna go down or we’re in a bubble or whatever. How do you respond to people like that?

Tyler: Well, I get that a lot because I, like you, I’m a real estate agent as well. And the reality of it is, if you’re shopping for, if you’re buying a property, it’s not about the appreciation. The appreciation may or may not be tied to market value. So let’s talk about single-family houses for a second.

The market value of a single-family house is tied to comparable sales. That is the only metric that matters. Yes, there’s the income method and all these other things, but when it comes down to having an appraisal, the only thing that the appraiser is gonna look at to determine what the equity is, is what the guy down the street did, so if the guy down the street did a terrible job, or girl down the street of owning their property ran it into the ground and sold it for a song. You and I come in, we see those low sales, unfortunately they become a factor.

The appraisers also look at those same comparable sales and that those numbers become a factor, so essentially if you’re investing in single-family homes, you have no control over the equity at all, you never will. It’s just not possible, that said, it doesn’t mean they’re terrible cash flow investments, they’re just… If you’re planning to see any appreciation there’s absolutely no guarantee that that’ll be the case. And now we look at small multi-families.

Well, the multi-families, the value of the property is derived from the income they generate and when you take the metric of what they use to determine value and take it off of comparable sales and put it on to income, then who drives that bus? It’s the owner of the property that controls the value, so the good landlords have tons of equity, the bad landlords are losing their shorts.

An example of that is: I have a Fourplex that I bought in 2015. I paid $215,000 for it and yes, I bought it off the MLS from a licensed agent, even though I am a license agent so I bought of the MLS. That property has appreciated over $415,000 in the last couple of years. That was 2015 we’re at 2019 at the time of this recording, Four years, it’s gone up $100,000 a year. For me, if I borrowed that money, borrowed against that, who would pay the mortgage? It wouldn’t be me, it would be the tenants.

So the tenants could essentially yield me, based on appreciation only, a $100000/year payday based on that appreciation. You know, that’s where the rubber really meets the road and that’s what people don’t understand, is when I buy a property, I don’t care what ARV is or what the comps say or the appraiser. None of that matters to me, what matters to me is when I’m done paying all the bills, the mortgage, the repairs, the taxes, the insurance, all that good stuff. What’s left over for Tyler? And then I compare that to how much do I have to put into the deal? Whether it be my money or investors’ money? How much cash do I have to infuse into this situation? And I don’t count the bank’s money, I just count what does Tyler have to put into this thing, how much capital? What’s my cash-on-cash return?

I look at that. And how can I do a better job than the last person that owned this? How can I add value? And those problems are not real challenging to solve. It’s kind of like, “Well geez maybe don’t put a dumpster in a parking space, don’t try to make a ghetto property an A class property. In that case, you’ve got a B- or C-class property maintain it well and understand who you’re serving. Understand who your tenants are, be a good manager, and I truly believe that. People say: well what about tenants, toilets and termites? That’s a myth. I gotta tell you, I’ve owned hundreds of units over the years. I don’t deal with any of that stuff, I just don’t, because they make these things called property managers and for a fee that you can build into when you buy the property, they will take care of all the drama for you.

So really, it’s a great way for somebody lazy like me to get a very nice income and not have to really do anything I don’t have to sweat anything, you just build one at a time, that simple.

Chris: That’s why you’re the cash flow guys, because you’re interested in cash flow.

Tyler:  Well yeah, I only invest for cash flow. Period. In other words, the market crashes, tomorrow. I could care less. You know why, because it’s like the stock market. People say… Well, I lost all my money when the stock market crashed. My next question for them is, why did you sell when it was going down?

I was invested in Microsoft then I lost everything. Let me ask you, did Microsoft go out of business?

Well no.

Okay, so then why did you sell? Well, because my broker told me to… And why do you think that is?

And then there’s usually a hum at the other end of the line and that’s because the broker gets paid whether you buy or sell, whether you win or lose, the broker always gets their pay, right, so when you’re invested in that type of commodity you might not wanna take your buying and selling advice from somebody who stands to earn a commission every time that happens. Even as a Realtor, I tell people, guys don’t take my… What I think. It doesn’t matter what Tyler thinks is a good deal because at the end of the day, you’re the one that’s gonna have to manage this asset, or its managers down the road. So let’s instead focus on building you a good team.

Let’s find you a good property manager, because Tyler’s good at selling property. But, Tyler’s not good at managing it because I’m too nice. Believe it or not, people say I sound scary but I’m really nice and I’m a pushover when it comes to tenants. I feel sorry for them. So for me, let’s get a team put together for you. Let’s find you a good property manager maybe a handy man or a contractor. Let’s get all those people in place, a good real estate attorney, ’cause you never know, right?

And then let’s focus on working with the manager to find you really good tenants. So for that to happen, now as a realtor. I’m a little lazy remember, so I’m gonna make my job a little easier ’cause I don’t have to get myself on the line about what’s this thing gonna rent for.

Let’s just ask Jimmy, your property manager. Hey Jimmy, 123 Anywhere Street is a duplex, two bedrooms, one bath in the Warshaw neighborhood. What will that run form of? Oh, it looks like $750 great, no problem. Now, we know that those two units will generate 1500 bucks. Based on that $1500, now we know what we have to pay because we’re only basing our value on income. And then really the rest just comes down to negotiation: sitting down face-to-face and negotiating with folks.

Chris: Now on a little detour, you’ve taken your success and you’re bringing it on the road. Tell me about your upcoming trip.

Tyler: So coming up soon will be a new podcast and YouTube channel called the Cash Flow Roadshow. And that’s my wife, Jill, and I ’cause CashFlow Guys kind of, we, initially there was two of us, two guys, doing the thing and when we separated with one partner, but CashFlow Guys has primarily been me on the microphone, although she’s joined me on a couple episodes, but CashFlow Roadshow is gonna be both of us, and we’re gonna be talking about not just real estate, ’cause we do that already with CashFlow Guys podcast, but more importantly we’re gonna talk about living your life now. We’re all in our late 40s, early 50s. Probably listening to this show, mid-50s and we’re all trying to figure out: Well okay, we’re here and they tell us we’re supposed to quit working in the next X amount of years, but how the hell do we do that?

Chris: And then what, right?

Tyler: Then what, so number one, what do we do with our free time, number two, how are we gonna pay for this, if we’ve got a little nest egg set aside, we know that we can’t start chipping away at that right away. What’s the next step?

So the podcast and the YouTube channel, are gonna be documenting that process. Now we, we’re fortunate enough test, a lot of hard work escape the rat race. We did exactly what I just got done telling you guys. We bought multi-family real estate, using other people’s money, we learned how to raise private capital and do all that.

Now we’re going to the new journey about we’re gonna reduce our work schedule down to about a combined 20-25 hours a week, we don’t really need to work, quote, unquote, but we continue to do deals and we do continue to coach students in what we do in real estate, and negotiation and things like that, so we’re gonna live life by design.

My wife quit her job. I haven’t had a job since, when was that? Let’s see, 2014 is the last time I worked a real job and we’re gonna travel the country experiencing new things, trying new things. We’re gonna document it all on video and audio, and hopefully inspire other people to get out there and have fun, to many people spend their Saturday sitting on Facebook or their Mondays sitting on Facebook or looking at Instagram, going. I wish I was there. Well, why don’t you just go?

Chris: Are you gonna be looking at opportunities while you’re on the road, when you roll into Nashville, Tennessee are you’re gonna start looking around for deals.

Tyler: Absolutely because here’s the thing, we always are looking for opportunity. And one thing that drives me crazy is I talk to people. I do a free consultation on Fridays for people who listen to my show, they call me, get on my calendar and I help them out, no obligation, of course. And one thing that they tell me time and time again is Tyler, there’s no deals in my market. My markets too busy, it’s the realtors have got it all got an eaten up or the wholesalers are killing my business or Zillow’s killing my business or whatever their excuse of the week is why they can’t find opportunity.

So we’re gonna go to your market, and we’re gonna show you where the opportunity is and then if you wanna join us, you can come in and do a deal or whatever, we’ll get you rolling in the right direction. So that’s the goal. We’re gonna help people get unstuck.

It’s real easy to sit on the sidelines and going, well, there’s just no girls to dance with.

What about the other side of the gym when all the girls as sitting the bench over there, why don’t you get up and ask someone to dance?

Chris: That’s too scary. What if they say no, right?

Tyler: Like there’s no deals here. How many offers have you written?

They wouldn’t accept it.

Why not?

Well, because they listed with a realtor.

Why does that matter? It’s for sale, isn’t it?

So we’re gonna have fun with it and help some people on the way.

Chris: Sounds like a great time. Do you have a route kinda planned out?

Tyler: So right now, we bought this, it’s called a One-Thousand Trails membership. They should give me a sponsorship, I talk about it so much. So One-Thousand Trails membership is kind like a pre-paid RV park thing. So they have all these resorts all around the country along the edges of the country, and we basically prepaid our camping so we can camp for free, we have a spot, we got a big class-A motor coach and we can park it and have water, sewer hook-up and all that. Absolutely free.

Oh, it’s not free, but we paid 700 bucks a year, for dues and that covers all of our fees, so everybody else is paying 1000 bucks a month to rent an apartment, we don’t have to pay anything and we can go to Yellowstone and park wherever we want and have electricity and internet and the whole nine yards. So hey, you know, why not?

Yeah, it was a good investment, I think.

Chris: Yeah, I’ve never heard of them before. They should give you a sponsorship.

Tyler: They should. With the new CashFlow Roadshow, I’ll be hitting up sponsors. Podcasting is expensive.

Chris: What do you want people to know? If you could say one thing to people who are, like you say, who are stuck or just like in analysis paralysis?

I would venture to say that 95-98% of Americans that are in our age group are stuck and probably terrified whether they’re willing to admit it or not about what are they gonna do next. I’m here to tell you this: My wife and I were able to escape the rat race in 11 months, using none of our own money. Now, there is no silly secret to that. There’s no extra super formula. What it came down to, is immersion. We immersed ourselves in learning how to generate passive income.

And that was the key. Now you can go out with real estate courses, and spend an absolute fortune getting into that or you can focus on – skip all the, skip the flipping the houses, skip the being a wholesaler, skip all that stuff don’t try to get rich quick, it’s just not gonna happen. But what I need everybody to focus on is focus on your first $200 a month. Whatever you think you’re gonna do, leverage other people’s resources, bring people together and focus on your first $200 a month, get to the point of where you’ve done whatever you’ve done, you’ve bought something or traded something and you generated $200 consistent income every month and then simply when you want more, just repeat the process you just did. It’s not as difficult as everybody wants to want it to be.

I get a lot of that. What about this, what about that? And I’m scared and whatever. As compared to what? Ask yourself that: as compared to what? Do you wanna be the person at the grocery store or the WalMart greeter when you’re 75?

I know I don’t. I go to Walmart, frankly, to stay terrified, I go there every time I feel lazy, I just go to Walmart and I find the greeter and I look at him and go: Not today, Tyler, not today, not gonna happen. I need to go out and buy another asset, figure out a way to buy an asset.

Chris: I think you’re right that the first one is gonna be the hardest. That first – once you can do it, then you know you can do it. Once you got that $200 consistent income, you’re like, “Oh okay, well that was easy.

Tyler: You gotta decide that you want it and you gotta decide that you’re willing to make sacrifices to get it because anybody that tells you that this is easy, is lying. It’s simple, but it’s not easy. It takes a lot of work and no, you can’t take weekends off, and no, you can’t stop work at 5 o’clock. If you’ve got that employee mindset, then yes, you’re gonna have to depend on your government to support you. Good luck with that, let me know how it works out. But if you’re willing to give up your weekends, if you’re willing to give up some of your evening so you can read books and study and listen to podcast which is pretty much how I self-taught myself how to raise capital.

If you’re willing to make that time sacrifice now it will pay off in the long run. Will it be an ungodly amount of work? Yes, it will, will it be painful and scary? Absolutely, it will, there is no easy button. Short of putting in the work, you’ve got to put in the work

Chris: When you put a deal together for folks, you just basically are staying in as a partner. I’m the person doing the work and you’re the person doing the money. And we’re gonna be in some level of partnership.

Tyler: It depends… We’ve got a couple different structures. Some folks, they want just want to own it themselves.

And in that case, I put on my Realtor hat and I become the Realtor and what we will do for them, our buyers, is we will take our commission as a promissory note, we carry our commission, we put our commission in the deal and a lot of Realtors listening to this are probably going: Have you lost your mind? But think about it. I’m in the game for cash flow. I’m always thinking of that. Where is that next 200 bucks?

So if I come to you, Chris, and you’re my buyer and you say… And I say to you, Chris, my commission on this deal is 20 grand. How about I give you that 20 grand at the closing table to help you cover your closing cost and start-ups and all that in exchange for that, you’re gonna give me a note and a mortgage, you’re gonna pay me 7% interest over the next five years, 10 years whatever, payments on that. And if you sell the property then, of course, I get paid in full, but allow me to help you succeed in this investment by throwing my commission in the game. Buyers love it. So they become fiercely loyal because I actually help them fund their deals simply by giving them what I’m already entitled to.

I love it, because I’ll tell you, Chris, I’m still getting paid on deals that I did 10 years ago. And now, that builds up that stream of income just keeps coming in time after time, and that gets comfortable. Imagine how it looks when you get 30 or 40 of those checks coming in every month and now you can predict ’cause it’s all about predictable streams of income, right? So there’s lots of different ways you can skin that cat, so to speak, and that’s just one of them. But, that’s one strategy I use that works very, very well. It’s a value-add type of situation. It works real, real well for everybody.

Chris: Interesting, I like it. What should I have asked you that I didn’t ask you? What big glaring hole is there in our interview today?

Tyler: That’s a tough one. I’m not a real critical person. I can be critical of me but not as critical of everybody else.

I guess we talked about getting started getting started in the whole nine yards, and really boy, it’s a real tough question.  Very rarely am I stymied with the questions.

I guess that really it comes down to, I would like people to… What’s the next step for somebody? What more I guess would be a question that could be asked is, what’s the next step of somebody really is serious about this and the answer to that is if you’re married, sit down and talk to your spouse, you’re significant other, and decide, number one, your Why, where you begin, what you’re willing, and what you’re willing to do, how many hours are you willing to donate to your business or invest in your business?

Forget how much money. The money doesn’t matter, money is just one of many pieces that are needed, but sit down with your significant other, your support system, and decide that you’re gonna do this. If you’re gonna escape the rat race, if you’re gonna be financially free, if you have a lot of credit card debt or mortgage debt, or you’re in a financial pickle right now, real estate probably isn’t for you right now. I’ll say that, and I know that I probably drive people crazy, but the best solution that you could do if you’ve got a lot of debt right now is to spend 120 bucks – I think it is or 140 bucks – and buy Financial Peace University.

My wife and I did that several years ago. It’s Dave Ramsey‘s program. I don’t agree with a lot of what he teaches, but I will agree with getting out of debt and using the debt snowball to eliminate the debt and then focus on building the wealth. You should not be worried about building your retirement when you still have debt.

And because the amount of money that you’re earning in retirement, is usually eroded by whatever debt, you have… You’re losing money by saving it.

Chris: Yeah, so I see that, I’m certainly not getting as much on my investments as I would pay in credit card debt, that’s for sure.

Excellent, thank you so very much for your time, and your wisdom.

Tyler: Thank you for having me. I had a good time, I appreciate it,

Chris: Thanks so much, Tyler.

If you like what Tyler had to say – and why the heck wouldn’t you – be sure to check out his website,, and his podcasts, which are on his website or iTunes, or any place else, wherever you listen to your podcasts. Believe me, he will make it worth your while.